So, the idea we're testing here at the office is basically people with light-colored eyes see it blue and black (well, purplish and brownish-goldish black because of the lighting) and people with dark and brown eyes see it as white and gold.
A colleague of mine has greenish-brown eyes and he sees it white and gold. You are pure green and you see the blue, but the gold is staying. So the brown component of the eyes ruins the blues from the data so far.
It's the lighting in the photo it would seem then if that's the case. It forces a sort of... optical illusion. Our eyes lie to us quite often, especially under sudden changes. The mind is a tricky and complicated thing. In brighter lighting the dress would probably get almost bleached out the blue for me. I've noticed that that can happen. The gold is probably just a reflection of a flash in shiny material.
My eye color is something in between green and blue (it's changing a bit from time to time, so yeah), but anyways it would fall in your "light-colored" category. I see this dress purplish blue and muddish-brown gold, but looking at the picture as a whole I would say it's a little overexposed and therefor it seems brighter, which would make it blue and black if you look at it IRL
The thing is the green-brown man said it's just a shadowed white. With all that thousand-sun light around even the deepest shadow would have been light gray.
Chris "The Historian" Loth 2015-02-27T09:56:34-05:00
Good morning all. Sorry I haven't been around at all, work has been crazy busy and life has thrown a few curve balls that have required a lot of attention on my part. Hope everyone is well!
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer… If you'd like to be on the Kitten Corps google map email EX at theexpresident@kittencorps.com with your details as follows:
[Kitten Corps Name] OR [Kickstarter Name including Kitten Corps Name e.g. Dave "ThogNort" Blum] OR [Your Kickstarter Name]
Zip Code or City, (optional: [RANDOM] intersection), Country/State
Alignment. - If not aligned we will mark you as something else.
I may also be contacted at drpotatten@kittencorps.com
I saw stuff about that dress last night...it looks white and gold...but the company apparently doesn't make it in white and gold. It does however, do to blue and black.
But if he lied it would be skewing the experiment! The truth must come to light!
Chris "The Historian" Loth 2015-02-27T10:15:34-05:00
I have blue eyes and am 35 (I know they were talking about age as being a potential factor in this controversy). I have seen pics of that dress that do appear blue and black but the one you linked to looks white and gold to me. sorry guys.
That being said, as I am already aware of the controversy, my results may be contaminated.
Chris "The Historian" Loth 2015-02-27T10:16:05-05:00
@Dr. P, thanks!
How have things been around here lately? It feels like it's been forever since I was able to hop on here!
@Tsveta: I have hazel eyes. But like I mentioned, I saw posts about this before. The company doesn't make white/gold. ;)
Chris "The Historian" Loth 2015-02-27T10:24:20-05:00
@Cha!, that's pretty much what I see. But as I know how the eye works (thank you neuroscience and perception classes!) I know that its the lighting they put the dress under. The white has a blue hue to it but so does the gold. As a such, that isn't a function of the dress but a function of the lighting they put it under along with the camera they used and potentially the white balance settings.
Jeff "Great Cane of Doom"™ Saxton 2015-02-27T10:24:35-05:00
I have brown eyes, and see blue with lavender tones, with a dark, dark grayish shade for the trim.
Well, it's also in how light hits the cones too Cha! So it's a curious mixture of the two. In the end you see what your body tells you you do one way or the other, it's always subject to change though.
Anja "Cha!" Allen 2015-02-27T10:29:55-05:00
Good Morning @Dr. Potatten *waves to somewhere close by*
Jeff "Great Cane of Doom"™ Saxton 2015-02-27T10:30:50-05:00
Maybe I'm just dense, but since there is clearly WHITE in the background of the image, how does one get white for the dress itself? We have white and yellow within visual range of the dress ... so there is a direct comparison.
Yes, the light saturation from the flash bleaches out the blue for me in that pic. The flash is clearly reflecting off of the material and producing an orange/gold color.
Chris "The Historian" Loth 2015-02-27T10:31:54-05:00
@Dr. P, food and random topics (such as the dress color controversy) are always welcome topics! Glad you've been doing well. :)
Jeff "Great Cane of Doom"™ Saxton 2015-02-27T10:31:57-05:00
In the original photo, someone have clearly messed with the color balance or saturation level for the effect to make the blue much lighter. The black has faded as well.
Chris "The Historian" Loth 2015-02-27T10:35:10-05:00
When viewing the photo I discounted the white in the background simply because I assumed that the flash used impacted the dress but wasn't strong enough to impact the background. As it appears this was taken with a phone, I think that was a reasonable assumption. When you put the three photos side by side I can see where people would see it as blue and black (albeit incredibly muted).
Chris "The Historian" Loth 2015-02-27T10:36:02-05:00
@Dr. P, I'm glad I was finally able to pop back in for a bit! Life should stop throwing curve balls and let me hang out with my EK friends gosh darn it!
Jeff "Great Cane of Doom"™ Saxton 2015-02-27T10:36:14-05:00
The Buzzfeed image with the blue toned light taken out, clearly makes the background wrong, hence showing it has been manipulated.
Yup but the checkerboard color is still gray. Unless someone says it's white.
Jeff "Great Cane of Doom"™ Saxton 2015-02-27T10:39:17-05:00
It's like the Windows wallpaper you get bundled that shows Monument Valley -- it has been color shifted way towards the red spectrum to make the valley look more crimson and orange (it has also had faux shadows introduced so that the new image is a copyright protected item).
One way or another it's an optical illusion of sorts happening, just one with many layers to it. It's one of the reasons magic shows are still a thing.
Chris "The Historian" Loth 2015-02-27T10:42:44-05:00
@Idle, I see the checkerboard squares as grey.
An easy way to correct for the top-down processing error is to look at the square in between A and B and relax your eyes, once you do this the colors will seemingly shift so that they actually show as the same tone.
Comments disappearing again to show up next year. KS needs to do several more maintenances methinks.
Chris "The Historian" Loth 2015-02-27T10:43:39-05:00
@Dr. P, very true. The only way to know for sure how people would perceive the dress is to have every one stand in front of it under the exact same lighting conditions and view it.
Chris "The Historian" Loth 2015-02-27T10:44:18-05:00
@Historian: Or not have held it up and taken a picture of the shadowed side. Lay it flat, then take a picture. No way the light will be bad enough that straight on like that it will cause controversy.
Jeff "Great Cane of Doom"™ Saxton 2015-02-27T10:48:38-05:00
The AKO Dice fellow just added his latest stretch goal ... brass dice ... man, there goes another $50.
They're too cool. I want them but have no idea why and what color I want.
Chris "The Historian" Loth 2015-02-27T10:50:40-05:00
@GM, there are always several problems with photographs. Colors are impacted by the filters used, the type of lighting used in the shot, white balance, etc. What you see is never a perfect representation of what is being photographed. to be 100% certain of the results of any experiment you need to remove as many variables as possible, that's why I say the best way to tell for sure how people will truly perceive the dress is to show it to them in person, all under the same lighting conditions.
Chris "The Historian" Loth 2015-02-27T10:50:50-05:00
@Idle, boo to the comment system!
Jeff "Great Cane of Doom"™ Saxton 2015-02-27T10:50:53-05:00
The dress photo also shows the limitations of using a cell phone for a camera. Cell phones just don't have the receptor sensitivity to correctly capture many things.
Ok let's bring this back around: Camera phones suck! (See also: 100 cat people pic attempts)
Jeff "Great Cane of Doom"™ Saxton 2015-02-27T10:54:12-05:00
I've noticed even cheap point-n-shoot digital cameras are pretty awful, but they are getting better. That said, you're talking to someone with $12K of Canon lenses ...
Jeff "Great Cane of Doom"™ Saxton 2015-02-27T10:55:02-05:00
On the dress, did you see Dan Savage's (Savage Love Podcast) riff on the dress on Twitter?
Jeff "Great Cane of Doom"™ Saxton 2015-02-27T10:56:48-05:00
As part of my job being a professional model maker, we did all our own photoshoots, so got pretty good at it ... from studio settings to large indoor photography in factories and such.
Melissa "The Creeper" Nicole 2015-02-27T10:56:55-05:00
Jeff "Great Cane of Doom"™ Saxton 2015-02-27T10:57:28-05:00
I can no longer determine what reply goes to which comment. LOL
Chris "The Historian" Loth 2015-02-27T10:58:58-05:00
@GCoD, no, I do not. I know it's possible to get good shots using an SLR or even a DSLR but you have to know how to use it. I'm saying most people don't. I'm also stating from an experimental design standpoint as many chances for variability must be eliminated to ensure you are actually getting at the data/phenomena you are trying to research. My statements regarding photography are based upon experiences I've had with taking photographs, seeing pics others have taken and from several art history professors discussion on the topic of photography. All of which discussed just how hard it is to get a "true colors" when photographing paintings for the class. All of my professors typically took their own photos because the ones you could by have color manipulation to try to make the painting "pop" more than it does in person.
Melissa "The Creeper" Nicole 2015-02-27T10:59:51-05:00
GCoD - mine was in response to dan savage.
Chris "The Historian" Loth 2015-02-27T11:00:18-05:00
@Creeper, I am back! :)
Sadly, I still have a ton of work to do at the office today so I'll need to pop in an out as usual and stuff going on outside of work is severely limiting my ability to hop on here after work.
Melissa "The Creeper" Nicole 2015-02-27T11:02:32-05:00
Historian - your work saddens me.
Jeff "Great Cane of Doom"™ Saxton 2015-02-27T11:02:59-05:00
I agree, @Historian; Color in photography is completely subjective, and no camera can ever get it 100% right, since each set of viewers will see something slightly different. Even in studio work, with the proper temperature lights, the correct filters, a gray-scale backdrop -- it was a real pain. Then we'd send images off to the printers, and get another layer of interpretation.
Mr. PACG 2015-02-27T11:03:20-05:00
Mr Oatmeal Sir - How about an exploding kitten wearing a blue/black dress? #thedress
Melissa "The Creeper" Nicole 2015-02-27T11:03:24-05:00
Guys... can we just... can we please change the subject... and... talk about... how many boxes come with each pledge? or something... and....please.
Chris "The Historian" Loth 2015-02-27T11:03:47-05:00
@GCoD, yup, there just isn't a replacement for the good ol' human eye. :)
What color is the damn dress?
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--5RZtwMnq--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/gcmrcydrfpdfyamqbp8w.jpg
Also, please provide your eye color to the answer. Testing a theory here.
My eye color is green.
That dress foreground color is a unique shade of blue. The background color is a dark and almost orangey gold.
Interesting.
So.... what's this theory?
So, the idea we're testing here at the office is basically people with light-colored eyes see it blue and black (well, purplish and brownish-goldish black because of the lighting) and people with dark and brown eyes see it as white and gold.
A colleague of mine has greenish-brown eyes and he sees it white and gold. You are pure green and you see the blue, but the gold is staying. So the brown component of the eyes ruins the blues from the data so far.
http://mashable.com/2015/02/26/buy-blue-black-white-gold-dress/ It's blue and black actually.
It's the lighting in the photo it would seem then if that's the case. It forces a sort of... optical illusion. Our eyes lie to us quite often, especially under sudden changes. The mind is a tricky and complicated thing. In brighter lighting the dress would probably get almost bleached out the blue for me. I've noticed that that can happen. The gold is probably just a reflection of a flash in shiny material.
That or the dress is defective and should be taken off the shelf :-P
I believe the shelf would object.
My eye color is something in between green and blue (it's changing a bit from time to time, so yeah), but anyways it would fall in your "light-colored" category. I see this dress purplish blue and muddish-brown gold, but looking at the picture as a whole I would say it's a little overexposed and therefor it seems brighter, which would make it blue and black if you look at it IRL
The thing is the green-brown man said it's just a shadowed white. With all that thousand-sun light around even the deepest shadow would have been light gray.
Funny thing the eyes are, young padawan.
Conclusion: hire light-eyed designers or suffer the consequences.
*waves* Just got into the office. Lots of work today so I won't be able chat but will when I get home.
Have a nice workday, Geist. Keep that nose up.
Good morning all. Sorry I haven't been around at all, work has been crazy busy and life has thrown a few curve balls that have required a lot of attention on my part. Hope everyone is well!
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer…
If you'd like to be on the Kitten Corps google map email EX at theexpresident@kittencorps.com with your details as follows:
[Kitten Corps Name] OR [Kickstarter Name including Kitten Corps Name e.g. Dave "ThogNort" Blum] OR [Your Kickstarter Name]
Zip Code or City, (optional: [RANDOM] intersection), Country/State
Alignment. - If not aligned we will mark you as something else.
I may also be contacted at drpotatten@kittencorps.com
Also: F dropped in and said Hi last night.
So, Mr. Loth, please deposit eye color and dress color in these here comments.
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--5RZtwMnq--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/gcmrcydrfpdfyamqbp8w.jpg
@Dr, P, Thanks for the info on the map, I've sent in my info. Also, If Prof F pops in when I'm not around please pass along my compliments. :)
@Idle, that dress is clearly white and gold
I saw stuff about that dress last night...it looks white and gold...but the company apparently doesn't make it in white and gold. It does however, do to blue and black.
And you're clearly brown-eyed.
(please say you are, don't break the perfect results)
Will do Historian!
But if he lied it would be skewing the experiment! The truth must come to light!
I have blue eyes and am 35 (I know they were talking about age as being a potential factor in this controversy). I have seen pics of that dress that do appear blue and black but the one you linked to looks white and gold to me. sorry guys.
That being said, as I am already aware of the controversy, my results may be contaminated.
@Dr. P, thanks!
How have things been around here lately? It feels like it's been forever since I was able to hop on here!
Just the usual tomfoolery going on around here.
@GM what are your eyes? I promise to leave you alone :)
I have hazel eyes and see that picture of the dress as Whitish/BabyBlueish & Gold. :)
@GM, good morning sir! Tomfoolery is most welcome after this week!
http://i.imgur.com/uZ5i243.jpg
Hope someone gets it.
And good place & space in time everyone :)
@Tsveta: I have hazel eyes. But like I mentioned, I saw posts about this before. The company doesn't make white/gold. ;)
@Cha!, that's pretty much what I see. But as I know how the eye works (thank you neuroscience and perception classes!) I know that its the lighting they put the dress under. The white has a blue hue to it but so does the gold. As a such, that isn't a function of the dress but a function of the lighting they put it under along with the camera they used and potentially the white balance settings.
I have brown eyes, and see blue with lavender tones, with a dark, dark grayish shade for the trim.
Mhm yep, everybody knows but still there's a bunch of predominantly brown-eyed people who see it white-gold :) It's for science, you know.
Okay, two exceptions out of about twenty results.
It's not the eyes. It's all the brain and how each of our brains processes and interprets the image.
And one of them is a blue-eyed Methuselah.
Hey @Idle/Wild are you calling me old? ;)
Also, Tsveta, the picture you linked shows it as blue/black, the one I just looked at(through the chive) shows it as white-ish/gold.
This is the original one. There are two color-corrected floating alongside, one with a white result and one with a blue.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/dress-doxed#.xtND3yKoA
The first pic is clearly white & gold to me and as clearly blue & black worn on the mother of the bride pic
I'm doing well Historian. it's been good in here. We keep up the chat as you can imagine.... we go back and forth between food and random topics.
http://www.wired.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Untitled-12.jpg
Well, it's also in how light hits the cones too Cha! So it's a curious mixture of the two. In the end you see what your body tells you you do one way or the other, it's always subject to change though.
Good Morning @Dr. Potatten *waves to somewhere close by*
*waves to somewhere close by* Morning Cha!!
Maybe I'm just dense, but since there is clearly WHITE in the background of the image, how does one get white for the dress itself? We have white and yellow within visual range of the dress ... so there is a direct comparison.
Yes, the light saturation from the flash bleaches out the blue for me in that pic. The flash is clearly reflecting off of the material and producing an orange/gold color.
@Dr. P, food and random topics (such as the dress color controversy) are always welcome topics! Glad you've been doing well. :)
In the original photo, someone have clearly messed with the color balance or saturation level for the effect to make the blue much lighter. The black has faded as well.
Let's keep food off the menu for another hour and a half, shall we?
Glad to hear from you too Historian. We always worry when people don't show up for a while, but we also understand that that is life :-P
lol ok Tsveta, just make sure that when it comes up you share more pics with us
Two more explanations:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/claudiakoerner/this-might-explain-why-that-dress-looks-blue-and-black-and-w#.foan8MgVA
http://www.buzzfeed.com/virginiahughes/why-are-people-seeing-different-colors-in-that-damn-dress
The Adelson Checkerboard Optical Illusion...
It sure has sparked quite the viral webz explosions ;)
Okay I will :)
When viewing the photo I discounted the white in the background simply because I assumed that the flash used impacted the dress but wasn't strong enough to impact the background. As it appears this was taken with a phone, I think that was a reasonable assumption. When you put the three photos side by side I can see where people would see it as blue and black (albeit incredibly muted).
@Dr. P, I'm glad I was finally able to pop back in for a bit! Life should stop throwing curve balls and let me hang out with my EK friends gosh darn it!
The Buzzfeed image with the blue toned light taken out, clearly makes the background wrong, hence showing it has been manipulated.
Yup but the checkerboard color is still gray. Unless someone says it's white.
It's like the Windows wallpaper you get bundled that shows Monument Valley -- it has been color shifted way towards the red spectrum to make the valley look more crimson and orange (it has also had faux shadows introduced so that the new image is a copyright protected item).
Anyway, I'm glad that I can continue my work knowing that the physical skills I need for it are intact.
Thank you for your help :)
One way or another it's an optical illusion of sorts happening, just one with many layers to it. It's one of the reasons magic shows are still a thing.
@Idle, I see the checkerboard squares as grey.
An easy way to correct for the top-down processing error is to look at the square in between A and B and relax your eyes, once you do this the colors will seemingly shift so that they actually show as the same tone.
Comments disappearing again to show up next year. KS needs to do several more maintenances methinks.
@Dr. P, very true. The only way to know for sure how people would perceive the dress is to have every one stand in front of it under the exact same lighting conditions and view it.
@Idle, what comments have disappeared?
Mine, the thanking one and everything after that.
@Historian: Or not have held it up and taken a picture of the shadowed side. Lay it flat, then take a picture. No way the light will be bad enough that straight on like that it will cause controversy.
The AKO Dice fellow just added his latest stretch goal ... brass dice ... man, there goes another $50.
They're too cool. I want them but have no idea why and what color I want.
@GM, there are always several problems with photographs. Colors are impacted by the filters used, the type of lighting used in the shot, white balance, etc. What you see is never a perfect representation of what is being photographed. to be 100% certain of the results of any experiment you need to remove as many variables as possible, that's why I say the best way to tell for sure how people will truly perceive the dress is to show it to them in person, all under the same lighting conditions.
@Idle, boo to the comment system!
The dress photo also shows the limitations of using a cell phone for a camera. Cell phones just don't have the receptor sensitivity to correctly capture many things.
Juuust waiting for an enlightenment.
NO NO NO NO NO NO.... I come on here... my safe place. my happy place. AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE DRESS?!?!?!?! my brain can't handle this...
What's wrong with the comments system?
@GCoD, camera phones are definitely not on par with DSLRs but, even a DSLR can take a bad picture in the wrong hands (like mine, for example). :)
@Creeper, good morning!
@Historian; do you have experience with a good film SLR? That's half the battle there, knowing how to shoot pics first is the key, not the camera.
So, Creeper... what color do you see?
(evil snicker)
Awhhh, my Historian has returned!!! ....but i need coffee and i need to not think about that damn dress.
I SEE WHITE AND GOLD AND THAT IS ALL. LEAVE ME BE.
Ok let's bring this back around: Camera phones suck! (See also: 100 cat people pic attempts)
I've noticed even cheap point-n-shoot digital cameras are pretty awful, but they are getting better. That said, you're talking to someone with $12K of Canon lenses ...
On the dress, did you see Dan Savage's (Savage Love Podcast) riff on the dress on Twitter?
Yeah, I just can't bring myself to care that much GCoD
He posted a pic of the Pope in a gold and white outfit ... asked the same question ...
No. He did not.
As part of my job being a professional model maker, we did all our own photoshoots, so got pretty good at it ... from studio settings to large indoor photography in factories and such.
@GCoD- that makes me feel a little better.
Did the Pope say https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-JwCV6CAAAJ1Rl.png ?
I can no longer determine what reply goes to which comment. LOL
@GCoD, no, I do not. I know it's possible to get good shots using an SLR or even a DSLR but you have to know how to use it. I'm saying most people don't. I'm also stating from an experimental design standpoint as many chances for variability must be eliminated to ensure you are actually getting at the data/phenomena you are trying to research. My statements regarding photography are based upon experiences I've had with taking photographs, seeing pics others have taken and from several art history professors discussion on the topic of photography. All of which discussed just how hard it is to get a "true colors" when photographing paintings for the class. All of my professors typically took their own photos because the ones you could by have color manipulation to try to make the painting "pop" more than it does in person.
GCoD - mine was in response to dan savage.
@Creeper, I am back! :)
Sadly, I still have a ton of work to do at the office today so I'll need to pop in an out as usual and stuff going on outside of work is severely limiting my ability to hop on here after work.
Historian - your work saddens me.
I agree, @Historian; Color in photography is completely subjective, and no camera can ever get it 100% right, since each set of viewers will see something slightly different. Even in studio work, with the proper temperature lights, the correct filters, a gray-scale backdrop -- it was a real pain. Then we'd send images off to the printers, and get another layer of interpretation.
Mr Oatmeal Sir - How about an exploding kitten wearing a blue/black dress? #thedress
Guys... can we just... can we please change the subject... and... talk about... how many boxes come with each pledge? or something... and....please.
@GCoD, yup, there just isn't a replacement for the good ol' human eye. :)