I do think that their 'achievement-style' thing is hilarious and good fun. I also love The Oatmeal.
I think my main complaint is that some of their communications, particularly the "You have pledged is $5.3m and counting, but still haven't earned a decent box" one have seemed a bit patronising.
John "Collar Stay" Kelly 2015-02-05T10:07:15-05:00
@Tsveta - It didn't go too quickly, but it did go too crazy. They had to make rules in order to ensure that they could track the number of submission as well as guarantee their authenticity. Could you imagine trying to track a bunch of copy/pasted Google images across multiple social media platforms?
Thewarstore.com 2015-02-05T10:07:50-05:00
@Matthew well post a selfie with a goat or take a picture of a taco cat!
John "Collar Stay" Kelly 2015-02-05T10:08:19-05:00
@Matthew - Who said the box wasn't decent to begin with? They just seem to be giving us an even better box. An upgrade from the already good/decent box.
Nicole 2015-02-05T10:08:34-05:00
@Matthew - We didn't do much to "earn" anything other than getting interested in a product. If I buy Cheetos and a bunch of other people by Cheetos, doesn't mean they're going to mail me a tin for my snacks
They could post the rules from the start. I'm not the first one to say this. They are playing with us.
They are vittens!
Good.
LadyZ of the house Vampitten 2015-02-05T10:09:14-05:00
@Matthew, most of us didn't back this project because we expect to be rewarded. We backed it because it looks like a fantastic game filled with hours of entertainment and we want to see the game come to life. And of course it's pretty sweet that we get a copy ourselves. Are SG's nice? Sure? Are they necessary? Absolutely not. And besides, our NSFW deck got upgraded to a full deck; we are now getting TWO full decks. We've pretty much doubled our expectations already. What more could you ask for? Now it's just about having fun and that is exactly what these new SGs are about. Well done, Elan, Shane, and Matthew!
Chris "The Historian" Loth 2015-02-05T10:10:00-05:00
@KittenCorps, *yawn* morning all. How goes the fight for achievements?
Cat Beard didn't go as planned last night as my phone was nearly out of juice and Loki was less than please at the prospect of being my 'beard'. I'll have to try again tonight.
John "Collar Stay" Kelly 2015-02-05T10:10:21-05:00
@Tsveta - They should have, but maybe they did not have the hindsight to realize what would happen. It's like like they waited a week. They posted the rules that night or the next day, I don't remember.
Matthew Brewster 2015-02-05T10:10:38-05:00
@Thewarstore.com - I plan to taco my manx cat. That's not the point!
Do you not think it's a bit demeaning to my cat if he has to do all that for a box which isn't even big enough for him to sit in?
You're all following their beck and call for that same box.
Hey everyone, please quit dogpiling on @matthew. He has agreed with us in a couple of his responses and he is entitled to air his opinion here. I'm glad to see that he is dedicated to the project.
John "Collar Stay" Kelly 2015-02-05T10:18:58-05:00
I'm all for it. Now if I can get my cat to wear a taco shell long enough.....
John "Collar Stay" Kelly 2015-02-05T10:19:50-05:00
I don't think anyone is dogpiling. Just expressing our opinions in regards to his. All in a civilized manner if you ask me.
Take a picture including the #update9 in the photo.
Remember, it must be In the Picture Itself.
Tag your post with #update9 and #explodingkittens
Tweet your immaculate visage at @gameofkittens
Don't anyone get me wrong. This project is amazing and I was onboard well before stretch goals were even announced.
Perhaps they should have thought a bit more carefully about what stretch goals could be before posting the Kickstarter. It's surely a bit naive to go into a Kickstarter thinking you don't need them! Especially if you are lucky enough for the project to really take off.
Mike Kabala 2015-02-05T10:24:14-05:00
@Javier, the short answer is to send it to @gameofCats on Twitter and make #update9 appears somewhere in the actual picture.
You guys are missing the point of kickstarting. We're paying more here than we would in a store. We're essentially getting the game off the ground. Stretch goals are something every kickstarter has to bolster interest. Consider it a form of internal advertising. These goals will not usually be available to the public after the kickstarter ends. if they are it's usually far more expensive. It's a way for the creators to show thanks to the customers for supporting them early. Not having stretch goals on kickstarter is pretty rude to those trying to support you, as you're basically saying "you're buying my stuff i have no need to thank you all for early support". As you can see, people are clamoring to reach these goals, which will only bring more and more attention/money to the project. So it's good for everyone all around
@Javier: The link I posted is from [the creators]. It says and shows what you need to do. It's just a link to the website picture.
Javier A Gomez 2015-02-05T10:25:34-05:00
Thanks guys. I don't k ow how I missed that update. To the camera...
Jeff "Great Cane of Doom"™ Saxton 2015-02-05T10:25:48-05:00
I am beginning to think they knew _exactly_ what they'd be getting into, the game was essentially designed and priced, they just didn't know if it would sell forty thousand or fifty thousand sets. After the response was so huge, they had no real way to reply since they already _knew_ what they were offering, so they took some time and designed the silly SG to make it more fun. These guys are too savvy to have left it all to random chance.
Mike Kabala 2015-02-05T10:25:49-05:00
@Matthew, we get your point. You don't have to spoil each post with a negative comment at the bottom. Some of us are a bit miffed at the way they rolled out the rules for the SG, but we soldier on.
@Dave: No, you're missing the point. We're BACKERS. It's entirely optional for the to even provide us with the product at all technically.
Dave Monteforte 2015-02-05T10:26:40-05:00
@Matt Brewster. They esxpected a small following, they only wanted 10k The NSFW deck was where they thought they would max out. Which is reasonable. I think they recovered well from it
Eric 'Tchotchke' Aschner 2015-02-05T10:27:17-05:00
GM all. Looks like I didn't miss anything. :/
Dave Monteforte 2015-02-05T10:27:37-05:00
@Evan yes it is optional, but as you can see by the response and 99.999% of other kickstarters, it would be rude to not thank the backers when going far beyond the amount you needed to get running
The Constitution of the United States of America, Article 1, Section 8 Clause 8:
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; ....To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries.
There's nothing rude about it. It's their product, and were doing nothing more than saying we want it. It does help provide us with incentive, but absolutely nothing more
@Evan So they did brainwash you into believing that they don't exist. Wow they're good.
Chris "The Historian" Loth 2015-02-05T10:32:29-05:00
@Dave, I guess I see it differently than you do. I backed the project because I wanted to get EK. My reward is helping get the game off the ground so that I actually can play it at some point. They promised you a card game if you backed them (for the right amount), nothing more, nothing less. IMHO I think demanding stretch goals is a bit self-indulgent and shows a level of self-entitlement that I just don't get.
Do I like stretch goals? Yes. Do I expect stretch goals? No.
Jeff "Great Cane of Doom"™ Saxton 2015-02-05T10:32:43-05:00
Illuminati, Skull & Crossbone, Hah!! They have yet to feel the awesome terror of the KittenCorps in action.
Chris "The Historian" Loth 2015-02-05T10:32:52-05:00
@Tsveta: No, I simply don't give people more credit than they are due. It's hard enough to get any two different people to agree on something sometimes, you really think there's an organization capable of agreeing on enough points to actually run the world behind the scenes? I think not.
Eric 'Tchotchke' Aschner 2015-02-05T10:35:42-05:00
You don't need lots of people agreeing, you just need a strong hierarchy. Do you think every nazi soldier shared in Hitler's dream?
Karl Hjalmarsson 2015-02-05T10:36:03-05:00
Help! I sent my potatocat to @gameofkittens and #update9 but i can't see it on #update9. What did I wrong?
Dave Monteforte 2015-02-05T10:36:28-05:00
@Evan there is not a single successful kickstarter without them because it is simple etiquette. no they do not have to. But at this point in kickstarter it would be expected. Look at all 3 projects you've backed. Even space janitors which was far far less successful than EK had many stretch goals because they wanted a way to thank their fans. people expect something that gets far more than they need, to do more. Look at Potato salad and you'll realize this clearly. even potato salad had stretch goals
@Tsveta: I know, but sometimes people are so serious about it that it can be hard to actually tell... conspiracy voodouists kind of rub me the wrong way a little.
@Dave: You completely missed my point and went on ranting about the [need] for SGs that doesn't actually exist.... 10 points....
Dave Monteforte 2015-02-05T10:39:15-05:00
I do not demand stretch goals, but i do expect them, as everyone who puts projects on the site has them. It's incentive, and if you only want the game, then you don't need to put forward towards a stretch goal. I however (on the pixel tactics kickstarter for instance) added funds because i really wanted to help push towards that new potential addition. It's not just good for us, it's good for the project as well
Karl Hjalmarsson 2015-02-05T10:39:23-05:00
OHHHH Iluminate
Matthew Brewster 2015-02-05T10:39:48-05:00
@Mike Kabala - After your comment about Dogpiling, I am quite surprised that the first time I actually felt dogpiled on was your last post to me! Everyone else has been pretty civilised!
To clarify. I don't expect them to provide Stretch Goals. I am not debating that they have a right to NOT provide stretch goals. That is indeed true. It is great that they Have decided to do stretch goals.
What I am saying is that after having announced stretch goals we seem to be jumping through an awful lot of ridiculous hoops to achieve them, considering that they are already phenomenally successful.... which in turn, while it is a bit of fun, seems a little bit ungrateful and patronising to the pledgers.
@Dave Monteforte - Well said Dave. I completely agree with everything you said there!
@Matthew: He was the first person, you can't feel dogpilled on until more than one persons on you.... that's how it LITERALLY works.
Rod "BaKhan" Mitchell 2015-02-05T10:41:09-05:00
I knew this was too good to last. Where did all the good times go, where are all the potattens...
Eric 'Tchotchke' Aschner 2015-02-05T10:41:50-05:00
I really don't think most SGs are about rewarding the fans. Their original intent was to use economy of scale to make the product better. (I get a price break at 10,000, so I'll use the savings to add something to the product)
Then people realized that you could use them to advertise for you. I had hoped the EK team would be somewhat above this (not that I really care) but that's exactly what they're doing. Same thing with all of those other games giving 'metal coins', 'painted figurines', 'more and more and more dice' etc. The pricing likely included most of that to begin with, but always being 'right behind' another SG makes people advertise for them.
Heck, I bet I could find at least a few hundred comments in this thread where people said "Hey, all of you guys should back this game over here because we're about to hit another SG".
They're using their existing network for free advertising. I'd much rather everyone just be upfront about it.
Jeff "Great Cane of Doom"™ Saxton 2015-02-05T10:42:18-05:00
Sometimes SG backfire horribly. Steve Jackson's 'Ogre' game had them, and one of them was to allow outside groups to provide add-ons units and scenarios. Everyone who stepped up to design and offer that did so except for one team, and Steve Jackson Games has had to take over that outside project and complete it in-house -- on their own dime, no less. Truthfully, for EK there just isn't a lot in a deck of cards that can be added, that wouldn't mean going to some other provider (T-shirts, keychains, etc.) that the original printing house could supply. Then you are dealing with multiple sources, schedules, and the ability to miss your deadline goes way up.
Chris "The Historian" Loth 2015-02-05T10:42:54-05:00
@Dave, in management there's a principle KISS (Keep it Simple Stupid). I would say that applies to production as well. Right now they have an insanely successful KS going. With the volumes they are looking at it's going be a tough call to get everything out to us even close to the original ship date. Once you start adding in EU Friendly, Super-cool trinkets and special boxes, etc it complicates the process, leads to longer delays due to increased production time, etc. so it really comes down to this: do you want a ton of cool trinkets, etc that will delay shipment of the game or do you want to get to Exploding Kittens sooner? I choose the latter, but that's just me.
Please check out our Thunder Clap for Exploding Kittens http://thndr.it/1CXhh0P and a big thank you to those of you that have already signed up.
So far we have 54 out of the 250 that we need for the Thunderclap to go live :-)
LadyZ of the house Vampitten 2015-02-05T10:44:28-05:00
@potatten: kudos on the correct usage of the word "literally". As an English geek/teacher, these things make me really happy. High fives all around. Even to Matthew, who at the end of all this, will LOVE his EK and NSFW packs like everyone else. Are we all friends again?
Dave Monteforte 2015-02-05T10:44:40-05:00
Ok evan, then find me one project that has no stretch goals ifd it isn't ettiquette. look at all the most successful kickstarts. Dozens of stretchgoals each, because they want to show appreciation to their supporters. They aren't required to, but it is something that people who got more than they expected to show the people backing them they care more than "buy our product, you don't need anything else it's perfect as it is"
Chris "The Historian" Loth 2015-02-05T10:45:00-05:00
@Doc. P, I'd like to think so, but it is just my opinion, take it or leave it. :)
@BaKahn, I see those potatten off in the distance... let's go frolic with them in the Happy Land. :)
Bob "Powers of Tesla" Lindley 2015-02-05T10:45:11-05:00
Let's all try to remember that the NSFW deck is stretch goal of it's own, it started as a 20 card add on, it is now a full deck AND it's Kickstarter exclusive, so only those of us who have backed this campaign will ever get it.
I leave for one day, ONE, and people start complaining more vehemently about being entitled to SGs that aren't really needed...nore were they planned for because the creators didn't expect this to go so nuclear.
Sit back, enjoy the fact you are getting the game, and lose the entitlement behind....FAR BEHIND!
Matthew Brewster 2015-02-05T10:45:58-05:00
@Evan - yes, Good point! That was just the first, and only, little bit that got flung!
Yup now you can actually play with it instead of look at it.
Rod "BaKhan" Mitchell 2015-02-05T10:47:39-05:00
@Great Mountain, +1
Eric 'Tchotchke' Aschner 2015-02-05T10:48:28-05:00
Also, I'd like to point out that my original assertion from a week ago that adding SGs would only increase the complainers has rung true. If they never posted any people complain about there not being any and then leave. If they post some, some people want more, some people want different, some people are unhappy with the levels, on and on.
@Dave: QUIT MISSING MY POINT!! >.< They provide incentive to back. Without that incentive most people can't make it far on KS. EK did not however need that incentive and had no need to even provide a SG.
We may need to start keeping a tally of the complainers...I would volunteer to do so, but month end is a pain in the ass already when doing two full time positions part time each.
@Owen: I refuse to embrace the negative so I can't do it either.
Eric 'Tchotchke' Aschner 2015-02-05T10:52:26-05:00
I don't see any Stretch Goals for Veronica Mars. I guess that's because it was a terrible failure of a kickstarter.
Rod "BaKhan" Mitchell 2015-02-05T10:52:53-05:00
I think we all need to refocus and realize that this is supposed to be a fun and rather frivelous game. Everyone is so serious about sg's how many, how they're achieved, what should have been, etc. Who really cares about the sg's here anyways? I could care less, I backed this game because I can envision my friends and I having a blast (!) playing this game and the price (for me) was very reasonable. We had a great thing going here, almost no whining, and no bitching about sg's. Now thats all I'm seeing. It is greatly disheartening to see a comment section that was so overwhelmingly positive and fun, turn into the standard ks bs fest. Please for the love of all that is silly, lets try to have some fun!
dns12999 2015-02-05T10:53:03-05:00
Additionally according to the message from Elan as of now they have no plans to sell this after the KS so this whole game is a KS exclusive. Though that could well change.
Eric 'Tchotchke' Aschner 2015-02-05T10:54:58-05:00
I also don't see any for the Pono. But that campaign also sucked...
John "Collar Stay" Kelly 2015-02-05T10:55:49-05:00
It is naive to think that KS have stretch goals to show how thankful they are. They have stretch goals to get more backers, and therefore more money. EK does not need more backers or money.
Chris "The Historian" Loth 2015-02-05T10:55:57-05:00
@BaKahn add another +infinity to GM's +infinity (yes, I know that is technically impossible, just go with it). :)
Kittens, kittens. I bid you farewell till I go home.
You take over now.
Horror Junky - Geist de la Muerte Gatito 2015-02-05T10:58:57-05:00
I'm late to the party (again) but here is my two rubles: I'm happy to get two compete decks and that is it. I'm more happy that the game has spawned a fan group (kittencorps) that, hopefully, will live on after the game comes out. Meeting new people and making friends is better than any stretch goal they could give us anyway.
Btw, have we decided on a place to have our first Kitten Con?
Having backed over 400 projects some do SGs, some don't. Many I wish hadn't done SGs as product is delayed or they have to rethink things as they've overcommitted and can't deliver because of SGs.
I believe only about 20% of campaigns get funded. So insisting someone should plan for stretch goals when they are more likely to fail than reach their goals is not the way I'd bet. I do talk to creators about stretch goals before projects launch but a lot of that talk is "make sure you can deliver on time and within budget and won't end up too overwhelmed".
When a project like this blows past its goal as quickly as this one did creators have to spend much time talking with suppliers and manufacturers and possibly fulfillment centers (which might not have been in the original plan) to figure out if they are still going to be able to ship on time. Adding SGs when you are making sure you can deliver what you've promised, unless virtual, is asking for trouble. Once you are sure you can ship what you are promising then you can talk to manufacturers/suppliers/fulfillment about changes/updates - cost and whether those will effect shipping dates. Only then can you announce SGs.
The creator may have had an upgrade planned but when you go from 500-1000 decks to 250k+ decks you have to make sure the upgrade is still viable in the timeframe. Many backers turn nasty when a project ships late. The last thing you want with a highly successful Kickstarter of this size is to have half the backers sending email & PMs demanding to know when their rewards will ship. So you reevaluate your SGs when a project goes wildly successful.
Reading Rainbow is getting slammed with complaints because they have been late shipping rewards. Backers forgot they backed the project to bring back RR and got totally focused on their stuff getting to them. I'm sure Élan and the others have followed those successful projects and where they've had problems and how their backers reacted and have been doing due diligence to try to avoid the negativity post-funding.
Bob "Powers of Tesla" Lindley 2015-02-05T10:59:04-05:00
For the Newcomers:
For people who are wondering how to send pics for the stretch goals:
FOLLOW Exploding Kittens on Twitter and POST all stretch goal pics through Twitter. https://twitter.com/gameofkittens 1. Take a picture (tacocat, beardcat, goat selfie, whatever) including the “#update9” in the photo. Remember, it must be In the Picture itself.
2. Tag your post with #update9 and #explodingkittens
3. Tweet your immaculate visage at @gameofkittens
KITTENCORPS ACCOMPLISHMENTS:
Website created by backer community with FAQs, tips on how to unlock stretch goals, awesomest webcomic and Coat of Paws: http://kittencorps.com/
Check out pretty much all the KS from Allegory. The majority of them (if not all) didn't have any SG. Sure they didn't raise the numbers these other ones mentioned did, but they had ONE that didnt get funding first go, so they reworked the campaign design and funded it the next time it went up(was for the Etch leather notebook covers).
Matthew Brewster 2015-02-05T11:00:37-05:00
@Owen - I didn't ever say anything about being entitled to stretch goals!
I am saying that the way they have implemented them is patronising!
Think about it. You plan for 500 decks to be made. These have a certain price per unit.
Then it goes nuts... 130,000 odd people buy a deck or two.
Your price per unit goes down because of economies of scale - you're making greater profit per unit than before.
So they can either pocket the difference or do a stretch goal. Their choice.
The concept of stretch goals is that you can use the money saved because of economy of scale to give 'thank you rewards' to your backers.
They have earned enough at this point to offer a better reward than a better quality cardboard box.
I am NOT saying we are *entitled* to a better reward. I am saying that they can do better than they have so far offered, as many other projects that made far less have done before. There is a big difference.
Az4r0th 2015-02-05T11:03:09-05:00
Anyways, how are we going to get 100 people in one picture with cat ears
@Az4r0th: Wonder if they would accept a picture collage of 100 people with cat ears? Pretty sure we could get enough people from here to do that....then they could have a picture of 100 backers wearing cat ears instead of 100 randoms.
@Tsveta: Probably 5hours ago is when the next one started...or it might just be the costume club at some high school somewhere...possibly Japan. They seem more likely to do it.
Bob "Powers of Tesla" Lindley 2015-02-05T11:08:36-05:00
@Az4r0th. I don't see a convenient way. There is/was someone in Cali with a TV show filming that was trying to get the 50 people wearing cat ears photo done. Most TV studios (that I've been in) don't seat 100 people. Anybody have a connection with Jimmy Fallon? It seems like something he could get done pretty easily, and he seems like the kind of guy that would play along.
Hiepnotiq 2015-02-05T11:08:36-05:00
I had asked where our SGs were a day before they came out and got pounced on by those who felt the need to defend their king. I had to remind those same people that I was also a backer, and had already backed this KS before the release of the SGs. I find the SGs to be a great part of Kickstarters in general. I do not require them but you can be damn sure that I love em! They bring with them excitement and the incentive for backers to spread the word and advertise for the creators to reach said goals.
Many people hate Kickstarter exclusive things but I am one other those who love them. Many Kickstarter exclusive things seem to be stretch goal rewards, which pretty much is a thank you to backers. I feel SG are a small reward for the risk backers also take by investing money into something that may or may not be in our hands for upwards of a year, or could be way below expectations and promises. I understand we do not get charged until after the funding deadline, but it is reasonable for people to budget that the money they put into kickstarters are just that, spent.
TL;DR I love SGs! They benefit backers as well as the creators.
Less than 20k to take out Levar Purrton!
I do think that their 'achievement-style' thing is hilarious and good fun. I also love The Oatmeal.
I think my main complaint is that some of their communications, particularly the "You have pledged is $5.3m and counting, but still haven't earned a decent box" one have seemed a bit patronising.
@Tsveta - It didn't go too quickly, but it did go too crazy. They had to make rules in order to ensure that they could track the number of submission as well as guarantee their authenticity. Could you imagine trying to track a bunch of copy/pasted Google images across multiple social media platforms?
@Matthew well post a selfie with a goat or take a picture of a taco cat!
@Matthew - Who said the box wasn't decent to begin with? They just seem to be giving us an even better box. An upgrade from the already good/decent box.
@Matthew - We didn't do much to "earn" anything other than getting interested in a product. If I buy Cheetos and a bunch of other people by Cheetos, doesn't mean they're going to mail me a tin for my snacks
They could post the rules from the start. I'm not the first one to say this. They are playing with us.
They are vittens!
Good.
@Matthew, most of us didn't back this project because we expect to be rewarded. We backed it because it looks like a fantastic game filled with hours of entertainment and we want to see the game come to life. And of course it's pretty sweet that we get a copy ourselves. Are SG's nice? Sure? Are they necessary? Absolutely not. And besides, our NSFW deck got upgraded to a full deck; we are now getting TWO full decks. We've pretty much doubled our expectations already. What more could you ask for? Now it's just about having fun and that is exactly what these new SGs are about. Well done, Elan, Shane, and Matthew!
@KittenCorps, *yawn* morning all. How goes the fight for achievements?
Cat Beard didn't go as planned last night as my phone was nearly out of juice and Loki was less than please at the prospect of being my 'beard'. I'll have to try again tonight.
@Tsveta - They should have, but maybe they did not have the hindsight to realize what would happen. It's like like they waited a week. They posted the rules that night or the next day, I don't remember.
@Thewarstore.com - I plan to taco my manx cat. That's not the point!
Do you not think it's a bit demeaning to my cat if he has to do all that for a box which isn't even big enough for him to sit in?
You're all following their beck and call for that same box.
@Collar Stay Hmmm sounds familiar :D
@Matthew If he fits (or doesn't!) I'm sure he'll sits! (or at least try)
@Tsveta - I don't follow your point.
@GCOD, Harrumph! I agree, but don't get me started on how a card game project could gild the lily!
Well they were unprepared for the whole scale of the project too.
@Tsveta - Maybe they were. So then why should we be asking for better/extra stuff that will only overwhelm them even more.
Yup. But we need to get even with them and have some extra fun :)
Hahaaa https://twitter.com/elanlee/status/563094098392150017
Hey everyone, please quit dogpiling on @matthew. He has agreed with us in a couple of his responses and he is entitled to air his opinion here. I'm glad to see that he is dedicated to the project.
I'm all for it. Now if I can get my cat to wear a taco shell long enough.....
I don't think anyone is dogpiling. Just expressing our opinions in regards to his. All in a civilized manner if you ask me.
@Mike: I just missed your initial reply to him.
Anyway, how is everyone?
So, if I want to leave a picture of a taco cat, where do I do so?
Take a picture including the #update9 in the photo.
Remember, it must be In the Picture Itself.
Tag your post with #update9 and #explodingkittens
Tweet your immaculate visage at @gameofkittens
@Javier: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B9CEjexIEAETmzw.jpg:large
@Mike Kabala - Cheers Mike.
Don't anyone get me wrong. This project is amazing and I was onboard well before stretch goals were even announced.
Perhaps they should have thought a bit more carefully about what stretch goals could be before posting the Kickstarter. It's surely a bit naive to go into a Kickstarter thinking you don't need them! Especially if you are lucky enough for the project to really take off.
@Javier, the short answer is to send it to @gameofCats on Twitter and make #update9 appears somewhere in the actual picture.
The long answer is on www.kittencorps.com
You guys are missing the point of kickstarting. We're paying more here than we would in a store. We're essentially getting the game off the ground. Stretch goals are something every kickstarter has to bolster interest. Consider it a form of internal advertising. These goals will not usually be available to the public after the kickstarter ends. if they are it's usually far more expensive. It's a way for the creators to show thanks to the customers for supporting them early. Not having stretch goals on kickstarter is pretty rude to those trying to support you, as you're basically saying "you're buying my stuff i have no need to thank you all for early support". As you can see, people are clamoring to reach these goals, which will only bring more and more attention/money to the project. So it's good for everyone all around
@Javier: The link I posted is from [the creators]. It says and shows what you need to do. It's just a link to the website picture.
Thanks guys. I don't k ow how I missed that update. To the camera...
I am beginning to think they knew _exactly_ what they'd be getting into, the game was essentially designed and priced, they just didn't know if it would sell forty thousand or fifty thousand sets. After the response was so huge, they had no real way to reply since they already _knew_ what they were offering, so they took some time and designed the silly SG to make it more fun. These guys are too savvy to have left it all to random chance.
@Matthew, we get your point. You don't have to spoil each post with a negative comment at the bottom. Some of us are a bit miffed at the way they rolled out the rules for the SG, but we soldier on.
@Dave: No, you're missing the point. We're BACKERS. It's entirely optional for the to even provide us with the product at all technically.
@Matt Brewster. They esxpected a small following, they only wanted 10k The NSFW deck was where they thought they would max out. Which is reasonable. I think they recovered well from it
GM all. Looks like I didn't miss anything. :/
@Evan yes it is optional, but as you can see by the response and 99.999% of other kickstarters, it would be rude to not thank the backers when going far beyond the amount you needed to get running
@Jeff quite possible they are Illuminati.
They've been in the business for so long after all. They know who you are. They know what you think.
The Constitution of the United States of America, Article 1, Section 8 Clause 8:
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; ....To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries.
There's nothing rude about it. It's their product, and were doing nothing more than saying we want it. It does help provide us with incentive, but absolutely nothing more
@Tsveta: The Illuminati isn't real, though I have heard the Skull and Crossbone Society can be scary.
@Evan So they did brainwash you into believing that they don't exist. Wow they're good.
@Dave, I guess I see it differently than you do. I backed the project because I wanted to get EK. My reward is helping get the game off the ground so that I actually can play it at some point. They promised you a card game if you backed them (for the right amount), nothing more, nothing less. IMHO I think demanding stretch goals is a bit self-indulgent and shows a level of self-entitlement that I just don't get.
Do I like stretch goals? Yes. Do I expect stretch goals? No.
Illuminati, Skull & Crossbone, Hah!! They have yet to feel the awesome terror of the KittenCorps in action.
@Tchotchke, morning, sir!
@Tsveta: No, I simply don't give people more credit than they are due. It's hard enough to get any two different people to agree on something sometimes, you really think there's an organization capable of agreeing on enough points to actually run the world behind the scenes? I think not.
Phew. Why so serious? I'm pulling your leg here.
You don't need lots of people agreeing, you just need a strong hierarchy. Do you think every nazi soldier shared in Hitler's dream?
Help! I sent my potatocat to @gameofkittens and #update9 but i can't see it on #update9. What did I wrong?
@Evan there is not a single successful kickstarter without them because it is simple etiquette. no they do not have to. But at this point in kickstarter it would be expected. Look at all 3 projects you've backed. Even space janitors which was far far less successful than EK had many stretch goals because they wanted a way to thank their fans. people expect something that gets far more than they need, to do more. Look at Potato salad and you'll realize this clearly. even potato salad had stretch goals
@Tsveta: I know, but sometimes people are so serious about it that it can be hard to actually tell... conspiracy voodouists kind of rub me the wrong way a little.
@Karl You did nothing wrong. It's the Illuminati's fault.
@Dave: You completely missed my point and went on ranting about the [need] for SGs that doesn't actually exist.... 10 points....
I do not demand stretch goals, but i do expect them, as everyone who puts projects on the site has them. It's incentive, and if you only want the game, then you don't need to put forward towards a stretch goal. I however (on the pixel tactics kickstarter for instance) added funds because i really wanted to help push towards that new potential addition. It's not just good for us, it's good for the project as well
OHHHH Iluminate
@Mike Kabala - After your comment about Dogpiling, I am quite surprised that the first time I actually felt dogpiled on was your last post to me! Everyone else has been pretty civilised!
To clarify. I don't expect them to provide Stretch Goals. I am not debating that they have a right to NOT provide stretch goals. That is indeed true. It is great that they Have decided to do stretch goals.
What I am saying is that after having announced stretch goals we seem to be jumping through an awful lot of ridiculous hoops to achieve them, considering that they are already phenomenally successful.... which in turn, while it is a bit of fun, seems a little bit ungrateful and patronising to the pledgers.
@Dave Monteforte - Well said Dave. I completely agree with everything you said there!
There is no "etiquette", they do nothing more than provide people with incentive to back the product, end of story. They are not a necessity.
@Matthew: He was the first person, you can't feel dogpilled on until more than one persons on you.... that's how it LITERALLY works.
I knew this was too good to last. Where did all the good times go, where are all the potattens...
I really don't think most SGs are about rewarding the fans. Their original intent was to use economy of scale to make the product better. (I get a price break at 10,000, so I'll use the savings to add something to the product)
Then people realized that you could use them to advertise for you. I had hoped the EK team would be somewhat above this (not that I really care) but that's exactly what they're doing. Same thing with all of those other games giving 'metal coins', 'painted figurines', 'more and more and more dice' etc. The pricing likely included most of that to begin with, but always being 'right behind' another SG makes people advertise for them.
Heck, I bet I could find at least a few hundred comments in this thread where people said "Hey, all of you guys should back this game over here because we're about to hit another SG".
They're using their existing network for free advertising. I'd much rather everyone just be upfront about it.
There basking in the sun out on the lanai Rod
Sometimes SG backfire horribly. Steve Jackson's 'Ogre' game had them, and one of them was to allow outside groups to provide add-ons units and scenarios. Everyone who stepped up to design and offer that did so except for one team, and Steve Jackson Games has had to take over that outside project and complete it in-house -- on their own dime, no less. Truthfully, for EK there just isn't a lot in a deck of cards that can be added, that wouldn't mean going to some other provider (T-shirts, keychains, etc.) that the original printing house could supply. Then you are dealing with multiple sources, schedules, and the ability to miss your deadline goes way up.
@Dave, in management there's a principle KISS (Keep it Simple Stupid). I would say that applies to production as well. Right now they have an insanely successful KS going. With the volumes they are looking at it's going be a tough call to get everything out to us even close to the original ship date. Once you start adding in EU Friendly, Super-cool trinkets and special boxes, etc it complicates the process, leads to longer delays due to increased production time, etc. so it really comes down to this: do you want a ton of cool trinkets, etc that will delay shipment of the game or do you want to get to Exploding Kittens sooner? I choose the latter, but that's just me.
@Historian: Well put.
Please check out our Thunder Clap for Exploding Kittens http://thndr.it/1CXhh0P and a big thank you to those of you that have already signed up.
So far we have 54 out of the 250 that we need for the Thunderclap to go live :-)
@potatten: kudos on the correct usage of the word "literally". As an English geek/teacher, these things make me really happy. High fives all around. Even to Matthew, who at the end of all this, will LOVE his EK and NSFW packs like everyone else. Are we all friends again?
Ok evan, then find me one project that has no stretch goals ifd it isn't ettiquette. look at all the most successful kickstarts. Dozens of stretchgoals each, because they want to show appreciation to their supporters. They aren't required to, but it is something that people who got more than they expected to show the people backing them they care more than "buy our product, you don't need anything else it's perfect as it is"
@Doc. P, I'd like to think so, but it is just my opinion, take it or leave it. :)
@BaKahn, I see those potatten off in the distance... let's go frolic with them in the Happy Land. :)
Let's all try to remember that the NSFW deck is stretch goal of it's own, it started as a 20 card add on, it is now a full deck AND it's Kickstarter exclusive, so only those of us who have backed this campaign will ever get it.
I leave for one day, ONE, and people start complaining more vehemently about being entitled to SGs that aren't really needed...nore were they planned for because the creators didn't expect this to go so nuclear.
Sit back, enjoy the fact you are getting the game, and lose the entitlement behind....FAR BEHIND!
@Evan - yes, Good point! That was just the first, and only, little bit that got flung!
Yup now you can actually play with it instead of look at it.
@Great Mountain, +1
Also, I'd like to point out that my original assertion from a week ago that adding SGs would only increase the complainers has rung true. If they never posted any people complain about there not being any and then leave. If they post some, some people want more, some people want different, some people are unhappy with the levels, on and on.
@Dave: QUIT MISSING MY POINT!! >.< They provide incentive to back. Without that incentive most people can't make it far on KS. EK did not however need that incentive and had no need to even provide a SG.
We may need to start keeping a tally of the complainers...I would volunteer to do so, but month end is a pain in the ass already when doing two full time positions part time each.
@Owen: I refuse to embrace the negative so I can't do it either.
I don't see any Stretch Goals for Veronica Mars. I guess that's because it was a terrible failure of a kickstarter.
I think we all need to refocus and realize that this is supposed to be a fun and rather frivelous game. Everyone is so serious about sg's how many, how they're achieved, what should have been, etc. Who really cares about the sg's here anyways? I could care less, I backed this game because I can envision my friends and I having a blast (!) playing this game and the price (for me) was very reasonable. We had a great thing going here, almost no whining, and no bitching about sg's. Now thats all I'm seeing. It is greatly disheartening to see a comment section that was so overwhelmingly positive and fun, turn into the standard ks bs fest. Please for the love of all that is silly, lets try to have some fun!
Additionally according to the message from Elan as of now they have no plans to sell this after the KS so this whole game is a KS exclusive. Though that could well change.
@BaKhan +infinity.
I also don't see any for the Pono. But that campaign also sucked...
It is naive to think that KS have stretch goals to show how thankful they are. They have stretch goals to get more backers, and therefore more money. EK does not need more backers or money.
@BaKahn add another +infinity to GM's +infinity (yes, I know that is technically impossible, just go with it). :)
Kittens, kittens. I bid you farewell till I go home.
You take over now.
I'm late to the party (again) but here is my two rubles: I'm happy to get two compete decks and that is it. I'm more happy that the game has spawned a fan group (kittencorps) that, hopefully, will live on after the game comes out. Meeting new people and making friends is better than any stretch goal they could give us anyway.
Btw, have we decided on a place to have our first Kitten Con?
Having backed over 400 projects some do SGs, some don't. Many I wish hadn't done SGs as product is delayed or they have to rethink things as they've overcommitted and can't deliver because of SGs.
I believe only about 20% of campaigns get funded. So insisting someone should plan for stretch goals when they are more likely to fail than reach their goals is not the way I'd bet. I do talk to creators about stretch goals before projects launch but a lot of that talk is "make sure you can deliver on time and within budget and won't end up too overwhelmed".
When a project like this blows past its goal as quickly as this one did creators have to spend much time talking with suppliers and manufacturers and possibly fulfillment centers (which might not have been in the original plan) to figure out if they are still going to be able to ship on time. Adding SGs when you are making sure you can deliver what you've promised, unless virtual, is asking for trouble. Once you are sure you can ship what you are promising then you can talk to manufacturers/suppliers/fulfillment about changes/updates - cost and whether those will effect shipping dates. Only then can you announce SGs.
The creator may have had an upgrade planned but when you go from 500-1000 decks to 250k+ decks you have to make sure the upgrade is still viable in the timeframe. Many backers turn nasty when a project ships late. The last thing you want with a highly successful Kickstarter of this size is to have half the backers sending email & PMs demanding to know when their rewards will ship. So you reevaluate your SGs when a project goes wildly successful.
Reading Rainbow is getting slammed with complaints because they have been late shipping rewards. Backers forgot they backed the project to bring back RR and got totally focused on their stuff getting to them. I'm sure Élan and the others have followed those successful projects and where they've had problems and how their backers reacted and have been doing due diligence to try to avoid the negativity post-funding.
For the Newcomers:
For people who are wondering how to send pics for the stretch goals:
FOLLOW Exploding Kittens on Twitter and POST all stretch goal pics through Twitter. https://twitter.com/gameofkittens
1. Take a picture (tacocat, beardcat, goat selfie, whatever) including the “#update9” in the photo. Remember, it must be In the Picture itself.
2. Tag your post with #update9 and #explodingkittens
3. Tweet your immaculate visage at @gameofkittens
KITTENCORPS ACCOMPLISHMENTS:
Website created by backer community with FAQs, tips on how to unlock stretch goals, awesomest webcomic and Coat of Paws: http://kittencorps.com/
Comments History Magnaminous Tracking:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23263053/EK/comments0000.html
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23263053/EK-comments.json.zip
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Check out pretty much all the KS from Allegory. The majority of them (if not all) didn't have any SG. Sure they didn't raise the numbers these other ones mentioned did, but they had ONE that didnt get funding first go, so they reworked the campaign design and funded it the next time it went up(was for the Etch leather notebook covers).
@Owen - I didn't ever say anything about being entitled to stretch goals!
I am saying that the way they have implemented them is patronising!
Think about it. You plan for 500 decks to be made. These have a certain price per unit.
Then it goes nuts... 130,000 odd people buy a deck or two.
Your price per unit goes down because of economies of scale - you're making greater profit per unit than before.
So they can either pocket the difference or do a stretch goal. Their choice.
The concept of stretch goals is that you can use the money saved because of economy of scale to give 'thank you rewards' to your backers.
They have earned enough at this point to offer a better reward than a better quality cardboard box.
I am NOT saying we are *entitled* to a better reward. I am saying that they can do better than they have so far offered, as many other projects that made far less have done before. There is a big difference.
Anyways, how are we going to get 100 people in one picture with cat ears
@Az4r0th good question
@Az4r0th: Wonder if they would accept a picture collage of 100 people with cat ears? Pretty sure we could get enough people from here to do that....then they could have a picture of 100 backers wearing cat ears instead of 100 randoms.
When is the next anime gathering? :D
and each person has the update9 thing.
Well said, Tasha.
This is exactly why I left KS the first time.
@Tsveta - Too bad Halloween has passed
@Tsveta: Probably 5hours ago is when the next one started...or it might just be the costume club at some high school somewhere...possibly Japan. They seem more likely to do it.
@Az4r0th. I don't see a convenient way. There is/was someone in Cali with a TV show filming that was trying to get the 50 people wearing cat ears photo done. Most TV studios (that I've been in) don't seat 100 people. Anybody have a connection with Jimmy Fallon? It seems like something he could get done pretty easily, and he seems like the kind of guy that would play along.
I had asked where our SGs were a day before they came out and got pounced on by those who felt the need to defend their king. I had to remind those same people that I was also a backer, and had already backed this KS before the release of the SGs. I find the SGs to be a great part of Kickstarters in general. I do not require them but you can be damn sure that I love em! They bring with them excitement and the incentive for backers to spread the word and advertise for the creators to reach said goals.
Many people hate Kickstarter exclusive things but I am one other those who love them. Many Kickstarter exclusive things seem to be stretch goal rewards, which pretty much is a thank you to backers. I feel SG are a small reward for the risk backers also take by investing money into something that may or may not be in our hands for upwards of a year, or could be way below expectations and promises. I understand we do not get charged until after the funding deadline, but it is reasonable for people to budget that the money they put into kickstarters are just that, spent.
TL;DR I love SGs! They benefit backers as well as the creators.
Every Japanese teen must have a little black dress and cat ears in the closet. Now to convince them.